Paineful Common Sense!

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From an acquaintance:

A quick search on wikipedia wll reveal a lot of the history of hezbollah, and their basis: an anti-occupation organization protecting the lebanese public from israeli forces. An organization wouldn’t exist if everything was fine and dandy. obviously an occupation lasting 20 years is not a clear sign of peace and understanding. also, since their existence, hezbollah has played a major part in the infrustructure of that society. for example, schools, hospitals, agricultural centers, and local government were all set-up by this organization. without them, the only other ruling force present were the israeli’s not hte lebanese. hypothetical question: would you blame them for protecting the poeple of that region?

Protecting them from what exactly? Israeli “oppression”? Please, what oppression? An occupation? So, if it were true that Hezbollah is just trying to protect its own people [which is not the case], why can’t Israel do the same? In fact, Hezbollah’s definition of defense [or perhaps yours considering you wrote "defense"] seems to be raining rockets on Israeli soil PRIOR to any Israeli attack. What did Israel do? Station troops in order to prevent terrorist activity from inflicting their country? So I suppose all other countries shouldn’t take steps toward preventing terrorist attacks either?
Okay so if Hezbollah really is nothing but “anti-occupation organization” [which once again I would like to point out that it isn't], what is wrong about Israel having an Anti-AttacksOnOurOwnCountry Organization?
So an occupation isn’t a sign of peace and understanding? Neither are thousands of Israeli deaths due to suicide bombings in only 5 years. Do you really want me to start counting twenty years worth of attacks on Israel?
So Hezbollah creates schools, hospitals, and has place in the government eh? So here’s a hypothetical, Mr. X wants to recruit as many people as possible to aid him in his master plan of killing all black people. So, Mr. X and his entourage reside in a weak country with frail government and little guidance. Mr. X begins building schools, so that his people can begin teaching children his philosophy from a young age. Hospitals, in which newborn babies are recruited from birth into his regime, and wounded men are treated in order to then take a role in his plan. Mr. X becomes so popular that he even finds a place in the national government and helps create it! Wow, so now, his plan to eradicate all black people from the face of the earth has some support. So now, would you call Mr. X a good man because he established said “schools and hospitals.” There is no doubt in my mind you are not a fan of Bush. In fact, I’d bet my bottom dollar that you claim that Bush used 9/11 as an excuse to enter Iraq for oil. So you’ll accuse Bush of ‘misleading’ the American people during their time of weakness to reap his own benefits, but you won’t condemn Hezbollah for taking advantage of a frail country to carry out their ultimate agenda [the destruction of Israel]? In fact, the first thing this Hezbollah propaganda video depicts is a mass of people chanting “DEATH TO ISRAEL!” Does that sound like a rational response to an occupation? Seems to be a bit more on the offense to me. But hey, I am going to diagnose your likely ignorance as a severe case of selective hearing.
By the way, on July 12, Al Jazeera [not an Israeli network] reported widespread celebration across southern Lebanon regarding the capturing of Israeli soldiers.

also, an unmentioned fact is that since the ocbreacuptaion ended a few years ago, military tradeoffs of SOLDIERS, not civilians, occured regularly. Israeli soldiers would capture hezbollah soliers, hezbollah would capture israeli soldiers, then they’d trade them…alive. the same would occur, vice versa. about a month ago, these games were taking place, and instead of capturing hezbllah soldiers for the trade, Israel went out and publicly declared that their soldiers were captured, and that they were going after them. unfortunately, no attempts at negotiation, no response from the hezbollah side, and no request for the status or whereabouts of the soldiers were sought after. Simply a sudden impulsive attack took place. why the change in habit of making the switchoff to this sort of response? too much politics to find the true source, but was it necessary?

1. There was no “sudden impulsive attack.”
2. Hezbollah requested the release of hundreds of POW’s for TWO Israeli soldiers.
Anyone who percieves a trade of hundreds of soldiers for two as fair should seriously consider medication. I would suggest Ritalin.

the israelis claim that they’re going to bring down hezbollah with this attacks, but the 2 decades that they occupied that area wasn’t enough to get rid of them. how can you think that an attack like this will NOT harm civilians and solve the hezbollah issue? if anything, this course of actions has only upset and rekindled the fuel that burning against the people who constantly are trying to run them over.

The occupation did not eliminate Hezbollah because it was never intended to! An occupation is NOT an attack. It was meant to ensure Israel’s safety, similar to the fence Israel built to reduce suicide bombings.
Who claimed that Israel’s current operations wouldn’t harm civilians? What military attack doesn’t harm civilians?
I, like many others, have repeated the following countless times, and it never seems to get into people’s minds-
Hezbollah’s operations are run from civilian homes, backyards, and other properties. How many times does the fact have to be pointed out that democratic countries station their military bases as far from civilian areas as possible. This is done to avoid civilian casualties. Hezbollah operates from among civilians! So this puts Israel in a most difficult situation- don’t retaliate and allow their country to be attacked, or retaliate on the terrorists and then get condemned by them with accusations of ‘being careless toward civilains.’ This is completely ridiculous. These civilians practically invite Hezbollah to their homes. And why wouldn’t they? Especially if Hezbollah provides them with “hospitals and schools.” These accusations need to cease- it is a fact, Hezbollah not only hides behind civilians, but has their support as well. See here and here.

here’s my point: we’re reaching the point in time set by the israeli forces for their retreat. in this time they have taken over southern lebanon, blockaded the sea, even from international help from getting through, they have blown up all roads that lead out of lebanon into syria, they’ve blown out all antenna’s and other communication devices in ALL of lebanon, they’ve killed over a thousand civilians, including a building filled with children and women, and as of this weekend, the israeli forces have moved into northern lebanese cities, these being the christian parts of the country.
while this is being done, there are parades and celebrations going on in israel, including the disply of captured lebanese flags til footage of children signing the missles that are about to be launch into lebanon.
i cannot see how this is going to end soon, let alone how this can be considered “the worlds work”. outside the usa, israel has really upset the international community. I am outraged how this slaughter is contiuing without an end in sight, let alone nobody is saying that this killing should stop immediately. you might not agree with my point of view, but i really don’t think that what israel is saying that set out to do is going to be acheived this way.

What exactly would a retreat do?  You think that would cause Hezbollah to stand down?  Well these terrorists that you are so motivated to defend WILL NOT cease to attack Israel.  In fact, a quote from their leader is not only proof of this, but proof of the fact that they are much more than simply an “anti-occupation organization,”
Hassan Nasrallah: “There is no solution to the conflict in this region except with the disappearance of Israel.”
Parades and celebrations in the streets of Israel eh? Well I doubt you know many people in Israel so let me tell you what’s really going on, coming straight from my mouth, me being someone who has over 100 family members there. The people are scared and worried as their children are off fighting to defend the country. People are scared to go into a cafe and have been for years because of suicide bombings, and now Hezbollah’s attack. Another fact you probably chose to ignore is that EVERY attack by Israel is preceded by the dropping of thousands of pamphlets, warning of the coming attack and its exact location, giving any civilian the oppurtunity to leave the area. Please show me some evidence of Hezbollah doing this. Parades in the street? Please refrain from making claims of which you know absolutely nothing about. You are either mislead or a liar.
Perhaps I am crazy, but this looks substantially more harmful than a child signing a missile to me.
So Israel has upset the international community? The “international community” has little integrity left. Please, tell me where it was when 6,000,000 Jews were being slaughtered all across Europe. Fuck, talk about a delayed reaction!
Some of us refer to this as “the world’s work” because Israel is the first country to stand up to terrorism. It has to, because it would not exist if it didn’t. It has been attacked by its neighboring countries on several occasions, many of which were executed by multiple countries cooperatively. Israel cannot afford to lie dormant when being attacked in such manners- how could it? It’s attackers aren’t rational and therefore, Israel would have been overtaken long ago if it did not defend itself.
It is unfortunate that you are outraged by how this “slaughter” is occuring but I am outraged too. That for decades the people in my country couldn’t enter a coffee shop or mall without fear of being blown up. Couldn’t use public transportation due to terrorists hijacking and/or bombing buses. Yeah, thats decades of outrage for ya. So in my opinion, Israel is being LENIENT by only defending themselves and limiting their attacks to being responses to terrorist attacks. But I’ll leave those decisions to their government- my personal bias would likely distort my judgement. At least I can admit that.
Allow me to assure you, Israel’s concern is defending its own people, just as every countries should be. Can you please provide me with an alternative approach to defense. If I hear “retreat and leave Lebanon alone” then I will only ignore it, as it is clear that has never worked. Every retreat by Israel from any other country, region, or territory has proved pointless. They are still being attacked. Face it, the “misdirected anger” you once spoke about, belongs to the people you are defending- not Israel.

to end my response, i give you a quote from a fellow jewish intellectual:
“PEACE CANNOT BE KEPT BY FORCE. IT CAN ONLY BE ACHEIVED BY UNDERSTANDING.”
-Albert Einstein

*sigh* I can’t wait until the day you then call this man a Jewish asshole for creating the atom bomb. All this debate is beginning to make me realize a few things. People will not understand what they do not want to hear. They prefer ignorance as it is far easier to just yell “murderer” than it is to provide some numbers and do some historical research. You see, stating that Country “A” attacked Country “B” twenty times in the past is NOT historical research. Especially when you leave out a fact such as “Country ‘B’ was kidnapping and murdering Country ‘A’ citizens” or “Country ‘B’ attacked Country ‘A’ first all twenty times.” It’s very easy to pick and choose facts, but rest assured, I have considered your points and arguments. In fact, I even researched them, dating back as far as relevant. After exploring different perspectives, I stand by my point. These posts are written based on rational logic; not anger and emotion.
To end this post [until an update ensues] I would like anyone reading this to seriously consider the points of this debate, and the nature of the debate itself. All I keep seeing is the same thing being said over and over again. I took this message and broke it up into sections, and responded specifically to each one. I did this because it seems like everything I say receives an automatic, if not robotic response. They can say “You dropped the ball” and I’ll show a video of them dropping the ball and the response would be “You dropped the ball!” I want to see some responses! Stop saying the same thing and flow with the debate, move with it. If you don’t, then it’s safe to say I have proved you wrong and you shall forever hold your peace.

My cousin was never interested in politics. He would just follow whatever those around him were doing in regards to voting and political ideology in general. A few years ago, he visit Israel for the first time and, not having any immediate family members there, stayed with mine. He returned a year or two later, never letting go of the love he had for the country.

Since terrorist group Hezbollah has been attacking Israel he was been glued to the news networks (hold CNN) non-stop, and consequently picking up on political beliefs. He now has his own set of beliefs. He is very passionate regarding Israel. He found an image on-line which read “ISRAEL IS DOING THE WORLD’S WORK” and made it his default MySpace picture, thereby making it visible on anyone’s page whose username his appeared on. A mutual friend of ours posted a comment on my cousins page addressing his thoughts on the image. Before you read it, allow me to point out that I heard from another friend of ours that this guy has a few remaining family members in Lebanon, or something along those lines (I admit, I was hardly listening):

“what’s up with your pic man? i don’t think that’s very cool. Also, i don’t think the world’s work involves disproportionate attacks of misdirected anger at a country who has done nothing but cooperate at peacekeeping efforts. Don’t pull your terrorists are hiding out bullshit. tHE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS ISREAL HAD OCCUPIED LEBANON’S SOUTHERN PORTION FOR 2 DECADES, AND THAT SPARKED THE CREATION OF HEZBOLLAH. AND NOW ISRAEL IS MARCHING TROUPS INTO LEBANON. HISTORY IS REPEATING ITSELF AND YOUR HELPING SPIN THE WHEEL!!”

This is infuriating to me. If I hear one more person regard Israel’s response (think about that word for a minute) as “disproportionate” I am moving to fucking Canada. Consider this:

re·sponse: A reply, answer, or additional message that is returned to a sender.

That is straight out of Webster for ya. So please, can somebody explain to me why it is Israel who needs to withhold from attacking Hezbollah when every attack Israel executes is in response to a Hezbollah attack. By following the order of unfolding events, it is apparent that if Hezbollah doesn’t attack Israel, then Israel wouldn’t attack Hezbollah. Furthermore, the leftist notion of “Lebanon does NOT condone Hezbollah’s actions” is complete and utter bullshit. Lebanese Christians are indeed condemning of the terrorists. But these few people do not compose a majority of Lebanon’s population. It is comprised mostly of Muslims. To anyone who actually believes that these Muslim nations do not support terrorists please read the first three paragraphs of this article. I am not saying every Muslim within that nation supports terrorism, but the number is extremely higher than any leftist seems to take into account, and it is without doubt a majority.

I have yet to figure out if most of these people are just disregarding it because it disproves them, or if they really are ignorant idiots. Regardless, these people need to stop denying the obvious, Israel has done nothing but protect itself. If Hezbollah attacked the United States that way, they would have been eradicated from the face of the earth, every single one of them. Israel should not excercise restraint, because apparently being kind and peaceful doesn’t prevent these people from murdering thousands of Israeli citizens.

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